Living in books: First Minister Nicola Sturgeon meets our teenage book reviewer

Gemma McLaughlin: When I was very young my mum read me The Magic Faraway Tree by Enid Blyton and I always wanted to learn how to read it by myself. What was the first book you remember reading by yourself?

Nicola Sturgeon: Funnily enough also The Magic Faraway Tree, it’s one of my favourites. I was really into Enid Blyton when I was young and, like you, I wanted to read books all by myself.

I didn’t enjoy having books read to me, even before I could read. When I was very little I would always want to hold the book by myself and look at the pictures, desperate to read by myself. I loved The Magic Faraway Tree too and The Enchanted Forest and then I graduated on to The Famous Five and The Secret Seven. Those were the books of my childhood.

GM: Lashings of ginger beer, how cool would that be?

NS: Very.

GM: If you could live the life of one character in a book or be friends with one character who would it be?

NS: There are so many characters I’ve loved in books and related to, but I suppose as a child I always wanted to be George from The Famous Five because they always had such exciting adventures and George was a tomboy, which I very much was when I was younger, and got to join in.

Probably my favourite book of all time is Sunset Song by Lewis Grassic Gibbon and the central character is Chris Guthrie. In fact this book is part of a trilogy. I always thought that being Chris Guthrie would be really cool, although she does have a tough life.

GM: What would you say is the book that has most affected who you wanted to become when you were older? Did anything have an influence on who you wanted to be?

NS: Sunset Song was a book that had a really big influence on my life, in fact even whilst I was growing up. It’s a book set in a different part of Scotland to where I grew up and in a very different time, it introduced me to our country and to a part of history that I wasn’t familiar with and it has a very strong female central character which really appealed to me.

READ MORE: Nicola Sturgeon: 10 things that changed my life

In my teenage years I was quite impacted by a lot of feminist fiction. I’m thinking of stuff like Virginia Woolf, Marilyn French with The Women’s Room, Alice Walker and The Colour Purple (one of my other favourite books of all time). These kind of books I suppose were the inspiration behind my feminism and sense of social justice and injustice.

GM: Have you read any of the more recent young adult fiction?

NS: I don’t read a lot of young adult fiction – even when I was young. Maybe I should actually. Have you any recommendations?

GM: There are loads of new styles of writing which have a very dystopian perspective, which is in someway quite true to life. I also recently read a feminist book which really inspired me. I’ve forgotten what its called, aargh. How embarrassing.

NS: No, don’t worry. That happens to me all the time ... it’s so annoying, forgetting the name of books or authors of books that I really love when I’m trying to recommend them.

GM: The book is about a girl growing up in Texas and she starts a feminist revolution in her school.

NS: The second you remember the name please let me know. It sounds right up my street. I’m a big fan of dystopian fiction actually. Obviously The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood is the most famous feminist current dystopian novel and Atwood is currently writing a sequel to that which will be really good. I’m looking forward to that.

GM: Are there any books that you think more young people should read?

NS: My advice to young people is actually just read whatever it is that interests you and you’ll find a whole new world opening up to you. When I was young I really loved reading the classics; for example I loved Jane Austen and the Brontë sisters. Jane Eyre is one of my favourite classics of all time. Books like these are a really good way of developing a love of fiction.

What I love about reading fiction is that it opens up worlds that I don’t have a direct experience of and the classics take you to very different times and they often take you into very different circumstances and worlds that you just couldn’t even comprehend or imagine.

When I read, I get so lost in the characters and the story and descriptions of the places that the books are set.

GM: Something that I don’t understand is that a lot of people say they don’t like reading in general. It annoys me, there is so many different things to read that there is no way to be against all reading.

NS: I agree! I get so frustrated with people who say they don’t like reading. As someone who really loves reading I find it so hard to understand and, as you say Gemma, there is just so much choice about what to read.

Fiction or non-fiction ... and then within both of those categories you’ve got a million different genres and topics and subjects that you could read about. Even – and it’s not a preference of mine – graphic novels, which are becoming more and more popular. There is so much choice out there and I just cannot get my head around those people who just say they don’t like reading per se.

GM: Are there any ideas, emotions or politics that you didn’t think about before or completely surprised you when you read about them in a book and it just made you think about things in a different way?

NS: Not so much things that I’ve never thought about before but, I suppose thought about differently. I enjoy reading books set around the First and Second World Wars as it gives me a sort of personal insight into different times in history that are really important to understand and are about a time that I have no way of having a direct living knowledge of.

Books set around slavery in America really fascinate me as well because slavery and the horrors surrounding that are quite difficult to comprehend. It gives me an understanding of some of the forces and attitudes and cultures that were at work there.

Recently I went to visit Auschwitz, and I’ve been reading some novels about the Holocaust and the concentration camps. The Tattooist Of Auschwitz is a book that I would definitely recommend. It’s not the easiest read but if you are interested in that it’s certainly worth it.

I’ve always thought of fiction as a really good way of opening up worlds that you wouldn’t necessarily know about or learn about and, unlike reading non-fiction, it allows you to see these worlds through the eyes of the characters which somehow makes it more real.

GM: I quite agree, I always preferred fiction, but what I’ve noticed is that it’s not always entirely fiction. I’ve never read a book that isn’t based upon things that are true. Fiction allows you to understand things that were true, are true, have been true on a deeper level.

NS: You’re absolutely right and that’s why I really enjoy fiction. One of my favourite, in fact my favourite genre of fiction is historical fiction. I so agree with you that all fiction has at least a kernel of truth in it, but historical more so, in that it’s based on things that happened in real life but it also satisfies a kind of double yearning for me.

I get the story and the escapism that it brings but you’re also learning something about a period of history along the way.

GM: Recently I read a book called The Night Diary, which I absolutely would recommend. It’s set during the partition of India and it’s told from the perspective of a young girl through letters that she has written to her mother. These characters are obviously made up but of course you know that it’s not entirely made up. It also taught me about the Empire and the partition of India which I didn’t know about.

NS: Yes, that’s what I mean, learning something at the same time. Some great recommendations here Gemma.

GM: So we both like historical fiction, but I also enjoy books set in the modern day that use important issues. For instance, I recently read a book called The Hate You Give”.

NS: I’ve heard of that, not read it yet but I’m meaning to. Is it good?

GM: It deals with issues surrounding racism and all the issues going on around the police and black lives.

NS: Yes, I love books like that, which delve into issues. There was a really good book that I read last year by Kamila Shamsie. And – oh no, I’ve forgotten the name, it will come back to me – and that book is about hate and cultural identity and is a very contemporary way of looking at real modern-day important issues through the medium of fiction

GM: I find it fascinating that books can convey such interesting messages with something that comes entirely from the author’s mind. I read a lot of fairy tales and poetry and books that are set in a world that doesn’t exist but you recognise the ideas and emotions and the central human truth. Has there been a book which seemed to be completely fictional but that you noticed had a lot of truth which spoke to you?

NS: Going back again to what we were saying about The Handmaid’s Tale that is ostensibly set in a completely different fictional world and yet a lot of the themes are translatable into real life, sadly and very upsettingly, about how women and girls are treated, in terms of attitudes and the misogyny and harassment that we see. So I think the power of dystopian fiction or other-worldly fiction that is ostensibly almost fairy tale like in that it’s so far away and seemingly made up but has roots in reality and that is what makes it so captivating.

The other thing that is so powerful about reading fiction is that it reminds you of how much human beings have in common even though we may hail from different sides of the world and different cultures and backgrounds and yet those common themes of humanity shine through.

Fiction can give us a deeper understanding of people and places and the themes that often divide us but can also often bring us together again. So I think reading fiction is definitely something that, while it’s entertaining and in my view the very best kind of entertainment there is – it is much more than that. It develops your empathy and understanding in a way that nothing else can.

GM: This happens to me quite a lot ... are there any events in book ... a specific moment that has made you feel something is so real that you stopped in your tracks?

NS: I probably struggle to think of a single example of this, but it happens so often. For me, if a book doesn’t make me feel like that at some point then it’s a book that I would be quite disappointed in because a book should always be capable of transporting you to where it is and whatever time it’s set in.

Going back to the books about the Holocaust and the concentration camps ... an experience like that is for us almost impossible to comprehend and the best books will conjure that up for you and make you feel that way. That pain.

And that’s not an easy thing to feel or do and is absolutely the power of good writing.

I always feel in complete awe of people who can through their power of writing and the power in their words conjure up those feelings for you.

GM: We agree that books are great, but sometimes they don’t end the way that you want them to. Is there any book you have read that you would like to rewrite the ending to?

NS: That’s a hard one. I’m an incurable optimist and a romantic so I suppose my instinct would always be to write a happy ending, even thought you can’t always have a happy ending.

I’ve just read a book called Rules Of Civility which is quite a modern book – I can’t remember the author’s name, see! – based in New York in the 1930s and the two main characters you think all the way through are meant to end up together and live happily ever after and they don’t. That’s the most recent one that I think I would have rewritten, even though I think the author probably got the ending right. So I would probably have ruined a great book.

When you read and love books and you become so invested in the characters you want them to be happy and live happily ever after – and life sadly doesn’t work like that.

GM: Some of the saddest endings I’ve read are when you know exactly what’s going to happen for the entire book and yet the story still has the power to startle and surprise and, yes, hurt you a little bit. I read a book called They Both Die At The End and it’s a love story and, of course, you know at the beginning what’s going to happen because the title has told you. Yet there was a part of me hoping that wasn’t true.

NS: These are the books that have such emotional impact, I suppose it’s a sign of human spirit that we never give up hope for a happy ending even in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

GM: At my mum’s recommendation I recently started reading Agatha Christie books. Have you read them?

NS: Yes, but not for a long while. I went through a phase in my teens, early 20s being obsessed by Agatha Christie books. What’s your favourite?

GM: Death On The Nile. I recently reviewed it for my column. I enjoy that feeling of knowing what’s going to happen and still being surprised by it. You know for sure someone is going to die in an Agatha Christie novel – that’s a given and that’s not the most important part – but still you feel the shock when it happens.

NS: Absolutely, its comforting.

These are the best thriller moments, not so much the whodunnit as whydidtheydoit? Agatha Christie was just brilliant, the best of her genre. She wrote loads. Although as well as Agatha Christie, in terms of crime fiction Scotland has lots and lots of brilliant crime writers. We are well served in that regard.

GM: Are there any that you would recommend?

NS: I’m a big fan of Val McDermid whose latest novel ends in this room, under that very chandelier – but I won’t tell you and spoil the plot in case you want to read that. I would definitely recommend her.

GM: I hope it’s not violent, that would be disconcerting in this lovely room.

NS: There is a wee bit of violence in the book but the ending isn’t violent. The guilty party gets arrested in this room. That’s how it ends.

GM: Is it you?

NS: [laughs] You mentioned that book about the partition of India that you were reading earlier ... There is a Scottish crime writer, Abir Mukherjee, who writes crime novels set in India before Indian independence actually, and they are really good. Ian Rankin, obviously, who is great, and Christopher Brookmyre is another one of my faves. So we’re lucky – lots and lots of great crime writers.

GM: I do enjoy a crime novel as it describes something I’ll never experience, being murdered or murdering...

NS: Well, let’s hope so!

GM: I’m sure I’ll never murder, investigate murder or be murdered.

NS: Well, if you’re wrong, I hope it’s the middle one and neither of the other two.

I enjoy crime fiction too, but I do try and read a variety of different things as I think if you stick to one particular genre you get a bit tired of it.

GM: You also don’t experience as many different ideas. I think reading is a way to experience things you never will, much like the author may be doing, using writing as a way to vicariously live that life.

NS: I much prefer reading books about things that I have never experienced or places I’ve never been. I’m not saying I never would but I wouldn’t be in a rush to read a book about Scottish politics for example because, well...

GM: Well, you are that ...

NS: Yep, I read books to get away from that.

GM: Don’t you think it’s more fun to read books you won’t experience?

NS: Yes, all the fun with none of the consequences.

GM: If you want to know what it’s like to murder or rob a bank, you wouldn’t actually have to rob the bank.

NS: Exactly. That wouldn’t be a good look. Christopher Brookmyre, who is one of the fabulous crime writers that I mentioned just a moment ago, his novels, although loosely described as crime novels, are crazy adventure novels and one of his is around robbing a bank so I lived that.

NS: What are you reading just now, Gemma?

GM: [laughs] Nothing. I should be as my review is due in two days. I’ve got loads on the shelf waiting for me, I was allowed into a cupboard in the offices of the Sunday National that has all these free books for review and I’m allowed to take them whenever I want to read and review.

NS: So, so, so excellent ... jealous.

READ MORE: Young adult book review: My True Love Gave To Me

GM: What are you reading just now?

NS: I don’t normally re-read books as there is just so many books out there that I haven’t read yet, but this year I’m reading the Muriel Spark books as this is the centenary of her birth. And I’m rediscovering their brilliance. They’re about a whole variety of things. Have you heard of The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie?

GM: No, I haven’t actually. Is it good?

NS: Oh yes! It’s about a school in Edinburgh way back in the first half of the 20th century, in the run up to the Second World War. Miss Jean Brodie is the school teacher who gathers all these girls around her and almost has a cult-like hold over them. You can read her stories as quite straightforward, but there is a depth that is fascinating and you can find something deeper.

GM: I have a very important question for you. If there was some sort of a magical situation in which you could either be you living the life that you currently are, as First Minister of Scotland, or be a best-selling author, which would you pick?

NS: [laughs] Well the grass is always greener and to that end I should preface this with the fact that I do love the job that I do and it’s a huge privilege to do and it’s the best job in the country ... but I would love to be an author. A best-selling author who has the ability to use words to create in people those feelings and teach them something and give people that escapism and learning and understanding. That’s such a special skill to have. I’m not sure I have that, but I can always dream.

GM: If you were to give me one and only one recommendation – if I were never to read another book again but this one – what would it be?

NS: Sunset Song ... [long pause] or Jane Eyre or The Colour Purple

GM: I said one.

NS: I can’t give you only one. I give you three.

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RECOMMENDED READS

The Magic Faraway Tree: Enid Blyton
The Enchanted Forest: Enid Blyton The Secret Seven: Enid Blyton
The Famous Five: Enid Blyton
Sunset Song: Lewis Grassic Gibbon The Women’s Room: Marilyn French
The Colour Purple: Alice Walker 
Moxie: Jennifer Mathieu
The Handmaid’s Tale: Margaret Atwood 
Jane Eyre: Charlotte Brontë
The Tattooist Of Auschwitz: 
Heather Morris
The Night Diary: Veera Hiranandani
Home Fire: Kamila Shamsie
The Sacred Art Of Stealing:  Christopher Brookmyre 
Rules Of Civility: Amor Towles
Death On The Nile: Agatha Christie
The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie: Muriel Spark
Works of Virginia Woolf 
Works of Abir Mukherjee
Works of Val McDermid
Works of Emily Brontë
Works of Charlotte Brontë
Works of Ian Rankin