Glasgow Council told there are 'too many Orange Order walks' by public survey

A consultation was set up following “outbreaks of violence and disorder at processions in Govan and the city centre” in August and September 2019.

That disorder led to the council’s public processions committee taking the “unprecedented decision” to ban six processions planned for 14/15 September 2019.

The findings have been revealed in a council report ahead of a review of its code of conduct on processions.

In total, 8616 responses were received, one of the highest response rates to a consultation on the council website — 97% were from individuals, 1% from businesses and 2% from representatives of groups or organisations.

READ MORE: Marches to ramp up as sixfold increase in Orange Order walks planned

Six in ten individuals who responded believe the city has too many parades while half believed there are too many in their area. Around one in 10 felt there were too few.

More than half of individual respondents (56%) believed parades had a negative impact on their local area. Of these, 95% said anti-social behaviour and the potential for violence and intimidation were concerns.

And individuals who thought parades had a negative effect “overwhelmingly agreed” the council (97%) and event organisers (98%) should do more to limit their impact.

However, among organisations – the majority of which were Orange Order – just 13% said there were too many processions and 31% claimed there were too few. Three quarters of representatives for organisations stated parades have a positive impact on Glasgow.

Organisations which took part included: Orange Order (53%), Apprentice Boys of Derry (13%), flute band members (9%), All Under One Banner (1%) and community councils (2%).

A number of respondents indicated “certain religious parades and processions were sectarian in nature and did not reflect the city or its residents”, the report added. “Comment was made that specific parades were divisive and caused division amongst communities, and were not inclusive of everyone.”

As part of the consultation process, the council also asked market research firm Ipsos MORI to carry out focus groups with Glaswegians and interview stakeholders, including procession organisers.

The company’s report, compiled before the pandemic in January 2020, stated in 2018 there were 313 notifications for processions in Glasgow — the majority, around 60%, came from Loyalist organisations, with around 5% for Irish Republican marches.

Researchers investigated parades in general and their “perceived impacts”, but found participants often focused on Loyalist parades, sometimes in combination with Irish Republican marches.

Councillors will be asked on Thursday to support the re-establishment of a cross-party group to discuss a new code of conduct and policy on processions for the city. Once agreed, the draft policy would go to the city administration committee for approval.

The current code of conduct requires organisers to give at least 28 days’ notice of plans for a parade. Rules include one steward to every 10 expected participants, providing breaks for pedestrians to cross and avoiding residential areas where practical.

Here’s what Ipsos MORI’s consultation revealed:

On public safety and wellbeing…

Participants were “aware of the violent incidents that occurred around a small number of Loyalist and Republican parades in 2018 and 2019”, Ipsos MORI reported, adding, in this context, discussion “unsurprisingly focused predominantly on these types of procession”.

They found people shared examples of abusive or unsafe behaviour based on personal experience but participants also recognised views could be shaped by traditional and social media. It was acknowledged serious violence is “rare” and “may be committed by a minority” but can have “a major impact on the public’s feelings about parades”.

Procession organisers felt all parades were “unfairly grouped together in terms of their perceived threat to public safety” and believed they have “significant positive benefits” including a sense of belonging, pride and shared culture.

City centre residents, businesses and workers, Catholics and other minority groups, including LGBT people, were identified as “potentially more vulnerable to perceived negative impacts from processions”.

Participants said…

“This summer, my girlfriend and I were on a bus trying to get into town and the bus got stopped because of an Orange march. We had to get off the bus and then we got abuse from people on the march.” (Public group participant, Glasgow South)

“We had a really bad incident particularly in the Govan area and it was sort of, I think it skewed everyone’s ideas towards procession in Glasgow. As I say I’ve been taking part in processions in Glasgow for 40 years, 49 years to be precise, and the events that happened in Govan were an aberration, it’s not the norm.” (Procession organiser)

“All it takes is one … of the violent ones to wipe out all the goodwill that has been built into the positive ones we have had.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“The people who actually do the walking and do all that, it’s all well organised, it’s all sorted. It’s the idiots that follow that cause…and they’re the ones that are threatening. You’re not threatened by a girl in a white jumper and a skirt walking along. You’re threatened by the one in the Rangers top who has got the bottle of Buck in his hand and screaming and shouting, without actually knowing what he is screaming and shouting about.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“I could say lots of negative things about the Orange Walk… but, I’ve got a friend who is a good friend, a nice civic minded person but he grew up in world of flute bands. He said but you’ve got to remember that’s part of my culture… I think if you’re Glaswegian you kind of have to respect that the way you have to respect all the other kind of marches that you’ve said there. That’s what makes it hard.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“(You’re) frightened to go out in case you’re going to get hurt, in case there’s going to be trouble.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North East)

“The impact I associate with most of the processions and walks I have seen with violence and aggression. All kind of areas in Glasgow were very…when I was young were sectarianism fuelled violence, and I think that impacts me now with my own kids, because it makes me quite anxious. I don’t want to take them anywhere near anything like that where there’s drink-fuelled violence and any kind of … anything like that aggression at all.” (Public group participant, Glasgow South)

On balancing competing rights…

Ipsos MORI reported freedom of expression was viewed “as an essential democratic right”. One view among participants was that this should only be restricted in exceptional cases when a procession was inciting illegal action. However, others felt the weight of particular negative impacts from processions could outweigh the right to absolute freedom of expression.

There was “strong resistance” in public focus groups to “any extension of the Council’s powers that would enable them to set prior limits on the number of processions”. “Granting state actors this kind of power was viewed as a risk to wider democratic rights,” the report stated.

However, members of the public and some stakeholders had a “desire” for greater dialogue and compromise between organisations.

Participants said…

“Even if it’s controversial, you know, if it is against one half of the community in the city or whatever, I mean that’s just living in a democracy. You can be offended and there is not a law against that. But as soon as it crosses a border into say hate speech or anything discriminatory if that’s there, that’s illegal.” (Public group participant, Anderston/City/Yorkhill)

“I really don’t get the reason why they want to do it, either lot. But, I think they have the right to do it, you know, that’s really important.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“I don’t think that is a right, when it is obviously antagonistic… I think if you’re choosing to go past the church or something like that, I think that is a problem.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“I would say even if it is more followers that are causing the problems than people in the march itself, to take some responsibility for that and unless you can stop, you know, unless you can prove that you can stop that happening then you have to take these concessions. I just don’t see another way.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North West)

“Maybe you should get the people from the opposite side of the fence here, and get them together, and get them to have a discussion as to how that could happen better. Get the groups together and ask them, how it can be policed, how it could be run? What could be done that would please both sides and keep both sides happy?” (Public group participant, Glasgow North East)

On services, economy and infrastructure…

Researchers found “widespread agreement” that processions caused travel disruption, though while “some perceived this as a minor frustration, for others it was a major inconvenience”.

They also reported the public and wider stakeholders had concerns over the strain placed on police resources, including limiting their ability to fulfil other duties. However, some organisers believed parades are “over-policed”.

Interviewees from Police Scotland said policing parades has a “significant impact on the time that officers have available to problem solve and be proactive” in serving communities across the city. They said resources would always be available for emergencies.

It was suggested that “without more concrete evidence”, it is “difficult to weigh up costs versus the benefits of parades and processions for local business and Glasgow’s economy”.

Participants said…

“Because you can’t cross the Orange Walk, I just got completely caught. I remember walking through town [and] I ended up really far north, I took a massive detour, I was hours late for work, so was everybody else.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North East)

“You know, we feel at times that we’re sort of victimised and marginalised to a certain extent… I see signs coming into Glasgow today, a warning sign, there is a bicycle race on Sunday. That completely shuts down the city, nobody complains about that. We’re in and out the city in an hour. Is there disruption? Yes, but we don’t shut down the whole city.” (Procession organiser)

“[The police] aren’t usually quick enough to come and respond to us. We then are having to deal with the issues ourselves. So, having resources being sunk into [parades and processions] and not having it anywhere else, the city can be quite dangerous.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North East)

“I’m likely to probably avoid the town altogether, which means there is money that could be spending in town that I’m not.” (Public group participant, Glasgow North East).

“I think, you know, between the people who come to the city, they’re not all from Glasgow, all over Scotland, and indeed maybe some supporters of our association, it can bring good money, good business to the economy. Whether it be hotels, you know, bars, cafés, restaurants, people will naturally stay over on the Saturday night.” (Procession organiser)

How the focus groups were formed:

Stakeholders who took part in the consultation included: County Grand Orange Lodge of Glasgow, Apprentice Boys of Derry, Royal Black Preceptory, Cairde Na Heireann, Glasgow Battalion of the Boys Brigade, West of Scotland Band Alliance, All Under One Banner, Glasgow First Flute Band Association, Scottish Episcopal Church, Archdiocese of Glasgow, Church of Scotland, Central Mosque, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, Glasgow Chamber of Commerce and Police Scotland.

Participants for three focus groups were recruited over the phone by Ipsos MORI from contact details from the Glasgow Household Survey. They were drawn from the North East, North West and South of the city, with quotas on gender, age, working status and ethnicity.

A fourth group was drawn specifically from people living in the Anderston/City/Yorkhill ward where a high number of procession pass through each year. A small number of participants had participated in a procession in the last five years or had attended events in the past. All participants were given £40 to cover and travel or other expenses.